The Liturgy Trap The Bible versus Mere Tradition in

The Liturgy Trap The Bible versus Mere Tradition in



10 thoughts on “The Liturgy Trap The Bible versus Mere Tradition in Worship

  1. Rick Davis Rick Davis says:

    I thought this was one of Jordan's better books His arguments are cogent and easy to follow and only a couple times does he lapse into his wonted flights of interpretive fancy I especially liked his explanation of the Second Commandment It sets good biblical parameters for those Reformed folks who want to recover a high view of liturgy in the Lord's Day worship and it's a good answer to those critics who think that the Biblical HorizonsTheopolisFederal Vision crowd are on an express train to Rome or Byzantium My only complaint is that it could have been longer


  2. John John says:

    James Jordan like a small but perhaps growing number of evangelicals is sick of the anti Biblical character of modern evangelicalism Many are tempted to leave evangelical Christianity and defect to Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy This short book is a reflection on this temptation and the necessity to resist such temptations As Jordan argues in this case the cure is worse than the diseaseJordan laments fairly briefly at the beginningFor instance I can go to almost any Presbyterian Church in America or Orthodox Presbyterian Church and perhaps hear one paragraph of Scripture read in the worship service No Scripture will be sung at all The only other Scripture in the service will be a line or two as a call to worship a line or two at the “collection” and a line or two as a benediction But if I go to a traditional liturgical church Episcopal Lutheran Roman or Orthodox I will hear an Old Testament lesson an Epistle lesson and a Gospel lesson read I will pray prayers that are filled with Scriptural phrases I will sing chant a psalm or at least read it responsively So which group takes the Bible seriously?He gives several salient examples such as infreuent communion and church music He rightly dismisses what passes for worship music in most churchesThe serious Bible loving Protestant is compelled to sing some of the worst poetry ever written to some of the most appalling music ever conceived Nursery rhymes set to advertising jingles are the latest thing in worship but before them came music and poetry that was no better It is not snobbery to write this We despise the Holy Spirit and His work if we do not take seriously His labors over the past 2000 years in providing the Church with a heritage of prayers poetry and musicBut he does not focus his attention here long unfortunately I would love to read a focused polemic against modern church worship from Jordan but this isn't it Instead he focuses reasons why we must not join the cause with Roman Catholicism or Eastern OrthodoxyHe lists five primary objections to these two churches and then expands on each These teachings are1 Veneration of the “saints” 2 Bowing down to created things other then human beings 3 Confirmation as a second work of grace 4 Exaltation of virginity and celibacy and 5 The Misuse of the Doctrine of Real PresenceHe concludes writing of those that have already gone eastI cannot blame them but I don’t want to follow them I think that the cure is worse than the disease I don’t want my children growing up in a context of major heresy and liturgical sin We live in a time of chaos and disruption in the Church This is not necessarily a bad thing Out of it will come a new Church better and stronger than before though we may not live to see it It is best to labor where God has put us living in the tension between real presence and real absence


  3. Jacob Aitken Jacob Aitken says:

    Jordan defines the “Liturgy Trap” as seeing worship as a techniue for evangelism xiv Whatever else our liturgy may be it must always be a response to the Word of God Said another way The Word of God comes first The rest of the introduction explains why evangelicals would be tempted to high church traditions Since that’s is fairly well documented by theologians and sociologists Christian Smith et al I won’t belabor the pointThe SaintsShould we venerate the saints? We should at least ask “What does the Bible say?” Critics might respond “Yeah well the Bible doesn’t say anything about the term T rinity either” this is a specific uote from Orthodox Bridge True but assuming the Bible to be part of tradition which I don’t assume shouldn’t we at least pretend it is the most important part?Jordan first notes there is no biblical warrant to pray to saints 18 Since the disciples asked Jesus specifically how to pray and he gave them a specific template it is telling that venerating saints is absent Jordan then gives the standard biblical arguments against necromancy pointing out that Saul was condemned for talking to the dead SamuelInterestingly had the early Christians talked to dead people the Jews and Judaizers would have had a field day condemning them yet we don’t see thatJordan writesThe notion that the saints can hear our petitions means that a given saint can hear thousands of petitions coming from people all over the world This means that the saint has become virtually omnipresent What happens when that saint gets his resurrection body and is once again limited to being in one place at one time? 21Of course and my critics hate to hear this but this is a movement back towards chain of being and Hellenistic philosophyThe Second CommandmentThere is no problem with the actual act of bowing The problem is “to what do we people in the context of worship and liturgy?” The second commandment is very clear that we are never to bow in giving veneration toward man made objects 24The second commandment isn’t saying there should be no pictures of God a point for another day but that no image of anything can be set up as an avenue of worship to God and the court of heaven 24Only one peselPesel is the Hebrew word for “carving” Jordan neatly takes the argument a step forward by pointing out that “there is another pesel in the Book of Exodus The Ten Words which God carved with his own finger” 26 “The opposition is between God’s content filled graven Words and man’s silent graven images”God’s pesel is how he relates to us The relationship is verbal It is personal “It is God initiated” Jordan comments “When men set up a pesel it is always man initiated” 27 “The ‘veneration’ of man’s pesel is not a conversation with God but prostration before a man made object” This is the one objection even the most articulate anchorite cannot answer is conversation–words–possible?Anchorites love to counter that “Well God commanded Israel to make various carvings” So he did We say however “what is prohibited is the creation of a contact point with God in the likeness of other creatures” 28Jordan makes an interesting observation nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures do we see God’s people condemned for making a picture of God Rather they make up images of God and use them as mediators 29Application“God initiates the mediation between himself and us and He controls it” 29 “God’s mediation is verbalGod’s mediation is his pesel the Word Manmade mediators are images”Jordan concludes the chapter with a reflection on God’s 4th generation curse on image worshipersConfirmationJordan’s specific target in this next chapter is the rite of confirmation I want to expand the sights If you are in the “Really True Church” and I am not yet you are kind enough to consider me a “Christian” then the only conclusion one can draw is that I am a second class Christian Yet the New Testament knows nothing of this Jesus gives his Spirit as an arrabon to his people Full StopTwo Stage Christianity is simply an advanced form of gnosticismApostolic SuccessionA true apostolic succession is the royal priesthood which is succession through baptismIf we want to wax Trinitarian then the Church is a creation of the Spirit from eternity by procession not succession 46Here is the key uestion should we place Mary in the context of her Hebrew background see Judges 1137 40 or in the thought patters of St Jerome? The strongest argument that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus’s birth is the text itself I know of the backbending anchorites engage in to make the text say the opposite of what it says It simply doesn’t workIn the bible perpetual virginity is a tragedy 47The strongest argument for perpetual virginity is that Joseph would have been overawed by Mary’s high calling in giving birth to God himself that he wouldn’t have “polluted” her womb with dirty sex afterwards Peter Gilluist Becoming Orthodox A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith Brentwood TN Wolgemuth Hyatt 1989 118 Here are the problems with such a viewEven if correct it is pure speculationIf one partner refused sex to the other heshe would have grounds to divorce the other Exodus 2110 11Neither Mary nor Joseph knew that Jesus was God incarnate until after his resurrection They would have known he was called perhaps even Messiah but that didn’t necessarily mean Logos Incarnate 51Angelic CelibacyRoman Catholicism is guiltier of this than Orthodoxy though both share the same unbiblical presuppositions If we may reason analogically the High Priest is sort of an analogue to the Bishop today Yet the High Priest could marry Why may not the Bishop? Why use the analogy at all if you are going to reject it when you don't like it?Secondly God has said that celibacy is “not good” The entire scale of being ontology falls with those two words


  4. Jeremy D. Jeremy D. says:

    Originally posted at GoodWyrdscomMany young Americans myself included have become increasingly disillusioned with an American pop evangelicalism that is an inch deep and 2500 miles wide Like sugar it’s fun at first but at some point you realize if you don’t get something a little substantial you are going into a comaEnter high liturgical traditions such as Roman Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy and Anglicanism These traditions are old— defiantly old excepting Anglicanism They make grand claims of ancient historicity and everything they do in worship certainly has the appearance of age even to the point of the use of antiuated dead languages There is unabashed acceptance of the mystical which stands in contrast to the heightened scientific rationalism of much of the reformed church and the coarse anti intellectualism of a lot of the non reformed church And apart from all of that their worship and liturgy are downright beautifulMy own attraction to these things I’ve had to uestion and hold in check One major uestion I’ve had is this is this just a fad? Am I just falling in lockstep with obvious generational cultural trends? One can purchase a device from Sharper Image that looks like an old landline phone but connects to your iPhone Cassette tapes are almost cool again And rockstar musicians at the top of their game dress as though they are 19th century farm hands from the Irish countryside The point is though much of this “vintage attraction” has behind it some right criticisms and good desires much of it is a facadeIn “The Liturgy Trap” James Jordan is conciliatory to the frustrations of those in Reformed and Evangelical camps who are drawn in this direction But “the cure” he says “is far worse than the disease” The meta point of The Liturgy Trap is that while church tradition has its proper place and should be shown a great deal of attention and respect still it must always submit and conform to God’s Word If it is elevated to be on par with scripture or to stand in authority over scripture then we commit the same pharisaical sins that Jesus condemned This of course is not a new argument; it was at the core of the Reformation But Jordan’s burden is not to convince Catholics Orthodox or Anglicans to leave their traditionsThe Liturgy Trap is for Reformed and Evangelicals who are tempted to abandon their churches in search of the greener grass of ecclesial antiuityJordan spends the majority of the book laying out some critical theological differences between these traditions the veneration of Mary saints and icons; two stage Christianity in the rite of confirmation; sexuality and the exaltation of virginity and celibacy; and the nature of the presence of Christ in the Lord’s SupperThe final chapter deals with another area in which Reformed and Evangelicals disagree sharply with their Catholic Orthodox and Anglican siblings but as previously mentioned it is really an overarching disagreement At the end of the day one may make biblical arguments until blue in the face but if the ultimate trump card Tradition is played then those biblical arguments don’t amount to much The appeal to church tradition as the authority on what scripture does and does not mean subjugates an objective infallible unchangeable authority to a subjective fallen ever changing one This Jordan explains is one of the reasons these traditions have been so susceptible to the errors of the higher criticisms characteristic of liberal theologyRebellion is in our blood Despite the claims of modern philosophy we can’t control or exercise dominion over scripture Tradition however we can control Scripture has come to us objectively passed down faithfully protected by the Spirit Tradition good and helpful as it may be is a human invention Jordan says this “There is a very important difference between Scripture and tradition We cannot “obey” tradition; we can only follow it Custom and tradition cannot come to us as law because they are not authored by God’s voice They are not written In the Bible however we are confronted by the Person of God and we are confronted by words He has spoken and caused to be written”I highly recommend this book especially for my Reformed brothers and sisters who’s big hearts and aesthetically oriented minds sometimes lead them astray I know full well this danger The Reformed church desperately needs us to stick around We see the world in a way that our churches cannot afford to lose We are image bearers who resemble our Father in creativity compassion beauty and justice At the same time we desperately need our black and white seeing proposition making truth loving brothers and sisters to help us rein in some of our passion They are image bearers who resemble their Father in truth steadfastness and clarity One body different parts The temptation is to say “I’m an eye and I’m not really seeing any other eyes here and the ears are making me uncomfortable so I’m going to go find a body made entirely of eyes” That would be a monster Instead let us “walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which we have been called with all humility and gentleness with patience bearing with one another in love eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord one faith one baptism one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all” Ephesians 41 6 ESV


  5. Trent Still Trent Still says:

    uick and helpful read Some good thought provoking points Some bleh Glad to read of his commitment to protestantism in light of what is said about him in some sectors This was my first time reading an entire JJ work Pleasantly surprised


  6. Roy Roy says:

    There are some precious gems in this bookAnd dog droppings


  7. Chris Comis Chris Comis says:

    Here Jordan deals with that approch to worshipliturgy which is often described as a strict regulativist approach But he also deals with the venerated traditional liturgies ie Roman Catholic Anglo Catholic and Eastern Rites Very informative


  8. Vinnie Santini Vinnie Santini says:

    This book is the worst of all Jordan's books Most of it is just plain useless for anyone who wants to be pulled back to Protestantism This book made me want to leave Protestantism NOT RECOMMENDED TO ANYONE


  9. Donald Owens II Donald Owens II says:

    A short warning against protestants returning to Rome by critiuing their doctrines of 1 the saints 2 veneration 3 Apostolic succession 4 Celibacy 5 real presence and 6 tradition Punchy profound blunt Virtually free from Jordan's typical weird interpretations


  10. wpschrec wpschrec says:

    In this short book Jordan addresses the problem in Reformed circles of some members leaving for Roman Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy or Anglo Catholicism He says that there may be a large variety of reasons for each individual to leave Reformed Protestantism for one of these other options but he offers a few reasons that seem consistently suggested1 the individual is jaded by the mushy evangelical tradition and find comfort in an RC EO or Anglo tradition2 they like the glory and meaning in the liturgies of these Higher forms of worshipInstead of dwelling on the reasons offered for leaving Jordan takes in my opinion a better approach by addressing the doctrinal problems within those traditions He talks about veneration of the saints and images confirmation the eternal virginity of Mary and celibacy of priests the Eucharist and their claim to tradition I think this was a very good approach because it shows the significant errors that church tradition can influence you and your children He constantly brings it back to I think that the cure is worse than the disease I don’t want my children growing up in a context of major heresy and liturgical sin He also emphasizes that these converts may have reasonable desires to do what they do but that they're only thinking in the short term They may be fine as honest Bible believing Christians but their children and their children's children are likely going to be raised in the same tradition and when they're stuck in it they'll gradually have their theology decay By bringing their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren into these superstitious churches they doom them gradually to be less and less oriented toward God’s truth and and saturated in error The first generation may be largely Biblicized but the fourth will not be


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Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

The Liturgy Trap The Bible versus Mere Tradition in Worship ❰PDF❯ ✩ The Liturgy Trap The Bible versus Mere Tradition in Worship Author James B. Jordan – Capitalsoftworks.co.uk We hear all to often that someone has decided to leave the Evangelical Christian faith and to join the Church of Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy or High Anglicanism The lure is liturgy and tradition and sin Trap The PDF/EPUB ç We hear all to often that someone has decided to leave the Evangelical Christian faith and to join the Church of Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy or High Anglicanism The lure is liturgy and tradition and since the Evangelical and Reformed churches so often have such poor worship Liturgy Trap The Bible versus PDF/EPUB or it is not hard to understand the pull exercised by those churches that have a heritage of formality sobriety and beauty This cure however is far worse than the disease The answer to the weaknesses of The Liturgy PDF \ Evangelicalism is not a turn toward the fallacies and errors of Rome Orthodoxy and Anglo Catholicism but a return to Biblical patterns of worship Just as there is true and false doctrine so there are true and false worship patterns In this book James B Jordan sorts out the true and the false in the area of worship practice discussing the cult of the saints the veneration of icons apostolic succession virginity and celibacy the presence of Christ at His Supper and the doctrine Liturgy Trap The PDF/EPUB é of tradition.

10 thoughts on “The Liturgy Trap The Bible versus Mere Tradition in Worship

  1. Rick Davis Rick Davis says:

    I thought this was one of Jordan's better books His arguments are cogent and easy to follow and only a couple times does he lapse into his wonted flights of interpretive fancy I especially liked his explanation of the Second Commandment It sets good biblical parameters for those Reformed folks who want to recover a high view of liturgy in the Lord's Day worship and it's a good answer to those critics who think that the Biblical HorizonsTheopolisFederal Vision crowd are on an express train to Rome or Byzantium My only complaint is that it could have been longer

  2. John John says:

    James Jordan like a small but perhaps growing number of evangelicals is sick of the anti Biblical character of modern evangelicalism Many are tempted to leave evangelical Christianity and defect to Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy This short book is a reflection on this temptation and the necessity to resist such temptations As Jordan argues in this case the cure is worse than the diseaseJordan laments fairly briefly at the beginningFor instance I can go to almost any Presbyterian Church in America or Orthodox Presbyterian Church and perhaps hear one paragraph of Scripture read in the worship service No Scripture will be sung at all The only other Scripture in the service will be a line or two as a call to worship a line or two at the “collection” and a line or two as a benediction But if I go to a traditional liturgical church Episcopal Lutheran Roman or Orthodox I will hear an Old Testament lesson an Epistle lesson and a Gospel lesson read I will pray prayers that are filled with Scriptural phrases I will sing chant a psalm or at least read it responsively So which group takes the Bible seriously?He gives several salient examples such as infreuent communion and church music He rightly dismisses what passes for worship music in most churchesThe serious Bible loving Protestant is compelled to sing some of the worst poetry ever written to some of the most appalling music ever conceived Nursery rhymes set to advertising jingles are the latest thing in worship but before them came music and poetry that was no better It is not snobbery to write this We despise the Holy Spirit and His work if we do not take seriously His labors over the past 2000 years in providing the Church with a heritage of prayers poetry and musicBut he does not focus his attention here long unfortunately I would love to read a focused polemic against modern church worship from Jordan but this isn't it Instead he focuses reasons why we must not join the cause with Roman Catholicism or Eastern OrthodoxyHe lists five primary objections to these two churches and then expands on each These teachings are1 Veneration of the “saints” 2 Bowing down to created things other then human beings 3 Confirmation as a second work of grace 4 Exaltation of virginity and celibacy and 5 The Misuse of the Doctrine of Real PresenceHe concludes writing of those that have already gone eastI cannot blame them but I don’t want to follow them I think that the cure is worse than the disease I don’t want my children growing up in a context of major heresy and liturgical sin We live in a time of chaos and disruption in the Church This is not necessarily a bad thing Out of it will come a new Church better and stronger than before though we may not live to see it It is best to labor where God has put us living in the tension between real presence and real absence

  3. Jacob Aitken Jacob Aitken says:

    Jordan defines the “Liturgy Trap” as seeing worship as a techniue for evangelism xiv Whatever else our liturgy may be it must always be a response to the Word of God Said another way The Word of God comes first The rest of the introduction explains why evangelicals would be tempted to high church traditions Since that’s is fairly well documented by theologians and sociologists Christian Smith et al I won’t belabor the pointThe SaintsShould we venerate the saints? We should at least ask “What does the Bible say?” Critics might respond “Yeah well the Bible doesn’t say anything about the term T rinity either” this is a specific uote from Orthodox Bridge True but assuming the Bible to be part of tradition which I don’t assume shouldn’t we at least pretend it is the most important part?Jordan first notes there is no biblical warrant to pray to saints 18 Since the disciples asked Jesus specifically how to pray and he gave them a specific template it is telling that venerating saints is absent Jordan then gives the standard biblical arguments against necromancy pointing out that Saul was condemned for talking to the dead SamuelInterestingly had the early Christians talked to dead people the Jews and Judaizers would have had a field day condemning them yet we don’t see thatJordan writesThe notion that the saints can hear our petitions means that a given saint can hear thousands of petitions coming from people all over the world This means that the saint has become virtually omnipresent What happens when that saint gets his resurrection body and is once again limited to being in one place at one time? 21Of course and my critics hate to hear this but this is a movement back towards chain of being and Hellenistic philosophyThe Second CommandmentThere is no problem with the actual act of bowing The problem is “to what do we people in the context of worship and liturgy?” The second commandment is very clear that we are never to bow in giving veneration toward man made objects 24The second commandment isn’t saying there should be no pictures of God a point for another day but that no image of anything can be set up as an avenue of worship to God and the court of heaven 24Only one peselPesel is the Hebrew word for “carving” Jordan neatly takes the argument a step forward by pointing out that “there is another pesel in the Book of Exodus The Ten Words which God carved with his own finger” 26 “The opposition is between God’s content filled graven Words and man’s silent graven images”God’s pesel is how he relates to us The relationship is verbal It is personal “It is God initiated” Jordan comments “When men set up a pesel it is always man initiated” 27 “The ‘veneration’ of man’s pesel is not a conversation with God but prostration before a man made object” This is the one objection even the most articulate anchorite cannot answer is conversation–words–possible?Anchorites love to counter that “Well God commanded Israel to make various carvings” So he did We say however “what is prohibited is the creation of a contact point with God in the likeness of other creatures” 28Jordan makes an interesting observation nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures do we see God’s people condemned for making a picture of God Rather they make up images of God and use them as mediators 29Application“God initiates the mediation between himself and us and He controls it” 29 “God’s mediation is verbalGod’s mediation is his pesel the Word Manmade mediators are images”Jordan concludes the chapter with a reflection on God’s 4th generation curse on image worshipersConfirmationJordan’s specific target in this next chapter is the rite of confirmation I want to expand the sights If you are in the “Really True Church” and I am not yet you are kind enough to consider me a “Christian” then the only conclusion one can draw is that I am a second class Christian Yet the New Testament knows nothing of this Jesus gives his Spirit as an arrabon to his people Full StopTwo Stage Christianity is simply an advanced form of gnosticismApostolic SuccessionA true apostolic succession is the royal priesthood which is succession through baptismIf we want to wax Trinitarian then the Church is a creation of the Spirit from eternity by procession not succession 46Here is the key uestion should we place Mary in the context of her Hebrew background see Judges 1137 40 or in the thought patters of St Jerome? The strongest argument that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph after Jesus’s birth is the text itself I know of the backbending anchorites engage in to make the text say the opposite of what it says It simply doesn’t workIn the bible perpetual virginity is a tragedy 47The strongest argument for perpetual virginity is that Joseph would have been overawed by Mary’s high calling in giving birth to God himself that he wouldn’t have “polluted” her womb with dirty sex afterwards Peter Gilluist Becoming Orthodox A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith Brentwood TN Wolgemuth Hyatt 1989 118 Here are the problems with such a viewEven if correct it is pure speculationIf one partner refused sex to the other heshe would have grounds to divorce the other Exodus 2110 11Neither Mary nor Joseph knew that Jesus was God incarnate until after his resurrection They would have known he was called perhaps even Messiah but that didn’t necessarily mean Logos Incarnate 51Angelic CelibacyRoman Catholicism is guiltier of this than Orthodoxy though both share the same unbiblical presuppositions If we may reason analogically the High Priest is sort of an analogue to the Bishop today Yet the High Priest could marry Why may not the Bishop? Why use the analogy at all if you are going to reject it when you don't like it?Secondly God has said that celibacy is “not good” The entire scale of being ontology falls with those two words

  4. Jeremy D. Jeremy D. says:

    Originally posted at GoodWyrdscomMany young Americans myself included have become increasingly disillusioned with an American pop evangelicalism that is an inch deep and 2500 miles wide Like sugar it’s fun at first but at some point you realize if you don’t get something a little substantial you are going into a comaEnter high liturgical traditions such as Roman Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy and Anglicanism These traditions are old— defiantly old excepting Anglicanism They make grand claims of ancient historicity and everything they do in worship certainly has the appearance of age even to the point of the use of antiuated dead languages There is unabashed acceptance of the mystical which stands in contrast to the heightened scientific rationalism of much of the reformed church and the coarse anti intellectualism of a lot of the non reformed church And apart from all of that their worship and liturgy are downright beautifulMy own attraction to these things I’ve had to uestion and hold in check One major uestion I’ve had is this is this just a fad? Am I just falling in lockstep with obvious generational cultural trends? One can purchase a device from Sharper Image that looks like an old landline phone but connects to your iPhone Cassette tapes are almost cool again And rockstar musicians at the top of their game dress as though they are 19th century farm hands from the Irish countryside The point is though much of this “vintage attraction” has behind it some right criticisms and good desires much of it is a facadeIn “The Liturgy Trap” James Jordan is conciliatory to the frustrations of those in Reformed and Evangelical camps who are drawn in this direction But “the cure” he says “is far worse than the disease” The meta point of The Liturgy Trap is that while church tradition has its proper place and should be shown a great deal of attention and respect still it must always submit and conform to God’s Word If it is elevated to be on par with scripture or to stand in authority over scripture then we commit the same pharisaical sins that Jesus condemned This of course is not a new argument; it was at the core of the Reformation But Jordan’s burden is not to convince Catholics Orthodox or Anglicans to leave their traditionsThe Liturgy Trap is for Reformed and Evangelicals who are tempted to abandon their churches in search of the greener grass of ecclesial antiuityJordan spends the majority of the book laying out some critical theological differences between these traditions the veneration of Mary saints and icons; two stage Christianity in the rite of confirmation; sexuality and the exaltation of virginity and celibacy; and the nature of the presence of Christ in the Lord’s SupperThe final chapter deals with another area in which Reformed and Evangelicals disagree sharply with their Catholic Orthodox and Anglican siblings but as previously mentioned it is really an overarching disagreement At the end of the day one may make biblical arguments until blue in the face but if the ultimate trump card Tradition is played then those biblical arguments don’t amount to much The appeal to church tradition as the authority on what scripture does and does not mean subjugates an objective infallible unchangeable authority to a subjective fallen ever changing one This Jordan explains is one of the reasons these traditions have been so susceptible to the errors of the higher criticisms characteristic of liberal theologyRebellion is in our blood Despite the claims of modern philosophy we can’t control or exercise dominion over scripture Tradition however we can control Scripture has come to us objectively passed down faithfully protected by the Spirit Tradition good and helpful as it may be is a human invention Jordan says this “There is a very important difference between Scripture and tradition We cannot “obey” tradition; we can only follow it Custom and tradition cannot come to us as law because they are not authored by God’s voice They are not written In the Bible however we are confronted by the Person of God and we are confronted by words He has spoken and caused to be written”I highly recommend this book especially for my Reformed brothers and sisters who’s big hearts and aesthetically oriented minds sometimes lead them astray I know full well this danger The Reformed church desperately needs us to stick around We see the world in a way that our churches cannot afford to lose We are image bearers who resemble our Father in creativity compassion beauty and justice At the same time we desperately need our black and white seeing proposition making truth loving brothers and sisters to help us rein in some of our passion They are image bearers who resemble their Father in truth steadfastness and clarity One body different parts The temptation is to say “I’m an eye and I’m not really seeing any other eyes here and the ears are making me uncomfortable so I’m going to go find a body made entirely of eyes” That would be a monster Instead let us “walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which we have been called with all humility and gentleness with patience bearing with one another in love eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord one faith one baptism one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all” Ephesians 41 6 ESV

  5. Trent Still Trent Still says:

    uick and helpful read Some good thought provoking points Some bleh Glad to read of his commitment to protestantism in light of what is said about him in some sectors This was my first time reading an entire JJ work Pleasantly surprised

  6. Roy Roy says:

    There are some precious gems in this bookAnd dog droppings

  7. Chris Comis Chris Comis says:

    Here Jordan deals with that approch to worshipliturgy which is often described as a strict regulativist approach But he also deals with the venerated traditional liturgies ie Roman Catholic Anglo Catholic and Eastern Rites Very informative

  8. Vinnie Santini Vinnie Santini says:

    This book is the worst of all Jordan's books Most of it is just plain useless for anyone who wants to be pulled back to Protestantism This book made me want to leave Protestantism NOT RECOMMENDED TO ANYONE

  9. Donald Owens II Donald Owens II says:

    A short warning against protestants returning to Rome by critiuing their doctrines of 1 the saints 2 veneration 3 Apostolic succession 4 Celibacy 5 real presence and 6 tradition Punchy profound blunt Virtually free from Jordan's typical weird interpretations

  10. wpschrec wpschrec says:

    In this short book Jordan addresses the problem in Reformed circles of some members leaving for Roman Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy or Anglo Catholicism He says that there may be a large variety of reasons for each individual to leave Reformed Protestantism for one of these other options but he offers a few reasons that seem consistently suggested1 the individual is jaded by the mushy evangelical tradition and find comfort in an RC EO or Anglo tradition2 they like the glory and meaning in the liturgies of these Higher forms of worshipInstead of dwelling on the reasons offered for leaving Jordan takes in my opinion a better approach by addressing the doctrinal problems within those traditions He talks about veneration of the saints and images confirmation the eternal virginity of Mary and celibacy of priests the Eucharist and their claim to tradition I think this was a very good approach because it shows the significant errors that church tradition can influence you and your children He constantly brings it back to I think that the cure is worse than the disease I don’t want my children growing up in a context of major heresy and liturgical sin He also emphasizes that these converts may have reasonable desires to do what they do but that they're only thinking in the short term They may be fine as honest Bible believing Christians but their children and their children's children are likely going to be raised in the same tradition and when they're stuck in it they'll gradually have their theology decay By bringing their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren into these superstitious churches they doom them gradually to be less and less oriented toward God’s truth and and saturated in error The first generation may be largely Biblicized but the fourth will not be

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *